Ron sits down with Mike Winger, reluctantly

Shabbat Shalom!

I really hesitated whether I would share this with you today. The ongoing saga with my longtime friend, Dr. Michael Brown, has been incredibly stressful. I had hoped that the final word on the issue had been spoken.

In mid-May, I felt a real sense in my soul that this issue, at least my involvement, was finished. I was quite happy about that. However, within days, the 3 ½ hour interview with Mercy Culture and Dr. Brown—which was one of the most egregious examples of cover-up culture and gaslighting of thousands of people—was posted.

There were just too many clear and objective lies to ignore. In response, I posted a few responses including a video where I read a letter from Kim’s widower, Ray, and one from their daughter, Jordan. They were absolutely gut-wrenching. You can see that here.

About a month and a half ago, I was asked by a confidant of Dr. Brown how long I would continue to speak on this issue. I sent word back that I would be posting one final interview about it and then I would be done. That final response was an interview with Deborah Perkins and Tammy Woods, victims of Mike Bickle. That video can be seen here.

I was very clear to Dr. Brown’s friend that I was as eager to stop talking about this as they were eager for me to stop talking about it—provided that Dr. Brown stopped telling half-truths about what happened. I made sure he understood that I did not want to continue, but if the gaslighting continued, we would continue to speak up.

A month went by and I could see that he was not talking about it and I was so happy. I really felt that I could finally move on from this issue. A popular YouTube apologist named Mike Winger asked me about two weeks ago if I would do an interview with him. I told Mike that I felt the issue was over and it was time to move on. I knew that doing a video with Mike Winger, because of his popularity, would reach hundreds of thousands of people, but I genuinely felt it was beating a dead horse. It was time to move on.

However, the next morning, to my chagrin, Dr. Brown posted another video where he compared what he had gone through over the past several months to a test from the Lord. It was a wilderness experience; a time of being pruned—no mention of being accused of sexual sin. Once again, he was not honest, and he turned what an investigator called sexually abusive misconduct, into a test from the Lord to make him stronger for ministry.

Such words victimize the victims and their families all over again. A test is when you don’t have enough money to pay your mortgage, and you pray. Or when someone is rude to you, you must choose how to respond. That would be a test. Being held accountable for sexual sin after denying it for 23 years is not a test—it is dealing with the consequences of bad behavior.

I called Mike Winger and told him I would do the interview. 

The video went live last night. My prayer is that the truth will bring deep conviction and will bring Mike Brown to a place of repentance. No more half-truths. No more gaslighting. I pray daily for Mike’s full restoration.

The interview is thorough and lasts three hours. It is meant to bring cover and protection to Ray, his family, and Sarah. It is also meant to share the truth with the Body of believers.

I know that some of you on my mailing list deeply want to be informed about these things, and others have no interest. That is why I hesitated to post this. But the information in this video is too important to ignore. My prayer for me is that this will be the final word on this issue. I am tired. I want to get on with my life and calling.

To be clear, I believe that the Lord would have us continue to speak on these issues, but I am far more desirous of teaching the theology—as you’ve seen in our past few emails—that addresses this issue than being part of some exposure ministry. This was put in my lap and I could not ignore it. But I hope it is finally over.

Shabbat Shalom